Thanks for this thoughtful examination of a tough issue, one I've wrestled with over the years. When it comes to "are Ashkenazi Jews white?" I'm just not sure. The ship's log when my great-grandparents and family (including my 5 year old grandmother!) immigrated to the USA in 1913. There's a list of categories the intake officers used to classify individuals. Under the category of "race or people" whomever filled out the form wrote "Hebrew." Definitely not "white" nor Poland from where the family immigrated (albeit Poland was considered under Russian control).
This fact has been absorbed into any history of immigration of the early 20th century. The books talk about the people who came to America: Italians, Irish, Russian, and so forth. Once the litany of countries are dispensed comes the word "Jews" as if they are a country all their own. In way, that's true, I suppose.
Obviously there's the racial categorization of "Jews" in antisemitic ideology like Naxism. But outside fascist insanity, the "Jew" seems to be its own seperate race--at least as when others define it. To the "colonialist imperialist" factions we're most definitely white. To fringe groups like the Black Hebrews, we aren't even Jews. I have what you'd call "olive skin," not too dark but dark enough that I've often been asked if I'm Hispanic. I used to teach writing at a 99 percent Hispanic community college. Many of the kids were lighter skinned than me. We talked about it in class. To a person, they were always surprised that my grandmother and family were not classified as "white" on the immigration form. It never occurred to them I was anything other than "white."
Now dig this: long before October 7 I went to a nearby Mideast food place to pick up some hummus. The two teenagers behind the counter asked if I was Syrian. When I explained no, I'm Jewish, they got all beet red and apologized. I told them no apology was necessary: just chalk my appearance up to those good semetic looks that we shared.
Another incident, dating back about 15-20 years ago. The college where I worked was having a panel on the commonalities and differences between Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. My partner in organizing the project was a Palestinian woman, who wore a hijab. On the day of the event, her husband saw us standing next to each other. He said that we could be brother and sister, we looked so much alike.
Add to that the garden variety antisemites who call me "Jew" as a separation from their racial makeup. I can't tell you how many times I've either had someone insinuate or tell me outright that I'm not "white."
So what is my race? What is my ethnicity? When I fill out forms that ask about race, I usually check off "other" or "care not to say." Same with ethnicity, though there's no question I'm a Jew to the core. But in the grander scheme of things, I honestly can't say what is my "race."
Thank you for writing this thoughtful comment. I’m Ashkenazi and yet managed to be identified as Jewish several times by my face/nose alone (for an antisemitic comment). Also I have spent several years at school related activities in my US city with an Arab Israeli parent who grew up a few miles from me in Israel and looks identical standing near me. Anyone stuck on a concept of “whiteness” for Jews and “brownness” for Arabs is an ignorant racist fool.
I like the idea of "leave the Jews alone." Why has this become such an issue? Are Jews any different from other people? Don’t they come in all forms and shapes? Why is there a persistent need to box them in? To reduce their authenticity? Their belonging? Does skin color determine authenticity? My skin color neither white nor black, now what?
As for the pick me, woke, self-hating Jews like Ilana Glazer, Jon Stewart, Seth Rogen, etc. who back the Palestinian cause, they don’t realize that denying their Jewish identity and trying to pretend that they are white will NOT shield them from antisemitism or change the past. As to how you got made fun of for your physical traits, I personally think your nose, hair texture and darker skin tone look great and that you look both beautiful (I say that respectfully and not to diminish your amazing intellect) and perfectly normal. You aren’t a freak or anything of that nature for your Jewish physical traits. In fact, when I saw a Substack note by you for the first time and I saw your picture, the first thing I thought was how gorgeous you were especially your hair which I thought looked absolutely perfect. When I read your note I immediately understood how intelligent, thoughtful, passionate, and unapologetically Zionist you are. As a Christian ally, I appreciate how you feel as a Jew. I did want to clarify that my point above was NOT by any means to say I started following you because of your looks but rather that woman or man, you don’t have to have European type physical traits to be attractive nor to get respect from your peers or neighbors either. I apologize if reading though this it did come off the former way. That was not my intent at all. But it just goes to show you how difficult it can be for dark-skinned Ashkenazi Jews to be accepted by white society.
Very well said (as usual), Noah! They follow in the path of many other Jews who wrongfully believed they would be spared if they "proved" themselves as "the good ones."
And thank you so much, I really appreciate the kind words!!!
There are photos of Chicago area restrictive covenant signs saying “No Greeks, no Armenians, no Jews”. Clearly there were large periods none of them were considered “white”.
I wonder if that was due to the massacres and expulsion/escapes of Armenians and Greeks and Assyrians (others?) from Turkey after WWI, resulting immigration to the USA and other nations.
Those were reasons refugees came. The restrictive covenants simply reflect who white people at the time considered “white”. A far-leftist pseudo-intellectual racist that labels all “whites” as “privileged”, “oppressors” and “racist” is a cult. Even within their own dogmatic manichean division of random Americans into “good” (non-white) and “bad” (white) actual history of racism is far more complex.
I agree with much of what you say. And the piece is well written and informative. But I don’t think most Americans harbor deep seated hatred of Jews. They may have some dumb ideas about Jews, because people who don’t know much about another culture tend to have dumb ideas. When I was a little boy, blonde, green eyed and fair complected, no stranger thought I was Jewish by appearance including other Jews who would ask me if my mother was Jewish (It cuts both ways). Part Sephardic, mostly Ashkenazi. But my DNA says Southwest Asia.
The problem for Jews right now is not the morons on the right. It’s the morons with PhDs in universities and their acolytes in the media. We have laws in America to deal with the criminal activities of these people and I think we’re about to see them enforced. There are many complex aspects to the race issue, but the immediate need is to stop the attacks on Jews. We also need better Jewish organizations, because in regards to the racism issue, we are not seeing an effective effort.
Jews are only white by the definition of others, whether whiteness is considered a positive or a negative. There's a cottage industry of books of when particular white ethnics came to be seen as white, or were accepted into polite society and into the higher echelons of power. One or more of these studies has looked at when Jews were considered white, or at least white enough to enter political office.
The problem with these books is the focus on whiteness as the arbiter of power, something American society should be trying to move past. In any case there have always been loci of power outside the white establishment, those who rose in financial and political power within their own communities outside of the white establishment.
If Ilana Glazer was so inclined, she could tell people she was from Greek background and everyone would believe her. Stereotypical Jewish features are common to the Levant and Mediterranean, unsurprisingly.
I note the absence of any dna data establishing an “ethno” component to being a Jew or to supposed oppression.
Despite all odds, every European Jewish descendant sued for their legacy familial Rembrandt back, such Genuis hidden in the nonexistent common dna that overcomes active oppression to collect Rembrandts.
You’re not Semites assholes, stop trying to ride the race train by appropriating other people’s heritage.
Thanks for this thoughtful examination of a tough issue, one I've wrestled with over the years. When it comes to "are Ashkenazi Jews white?" I'm just not sure. The ship's log when my great-grandparents and family (including my 5 year old grandmother!) immigrated to the USA in 1913. There's a list of categories the intake officers used to classify individuals. Under the category of "race or people" whomever filled out the form wrote "Hebrew." Definitely not "white" nor Poland from where the family immigrated (albeit Poland was considered under Russian control).
This fact has been absorbed into any history of immigration of the early 20th century. The books talk about the people who came to America: Italians, Irish, Russian, and so forth. Once the litany of countries are dispensed comes the word "Jews" as if they are a country all their own. In way, that's true, I suppose.
Obviously there's the racial categorization of "Jews" in antisemitic ideology like Naxism. But outside fascist insanity, the "Jew" seems to be its own seperate race--at least as when others define it. To the "colonialist imperialist" factions we're most definitely white. To fringe groups like the Black Hebrews, we aren't even Jews. I have what you'd call "olive skin," not too dark but dark enough that I've often been asked if I'm Hispanic. I used to teach writing at a 99 percent Hispanic community college. Many of the kids were lighter skinned than me. We talked about it in class. To a person, they were always surprised that my grandmother and family were not classified as "white" on the immigration form. It never occurred to them I was anything other than "white."
Now dig this: long before October 7 I went to a nearby Mideast food place to pick up some hummus. The two teenagers behind the counter asked if I was Syrian. When I explained no, I'm Jewish, they got all beet red and apologized. I told them no apology was necessary: just chalk my appearance up to those good semetic looks that we shared.
Another incident, dating back about 15-20 years ago. The college where I worked was having a panel on the commonalities and differences between Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. My partner in organizing the project was a Palestinian woman, who wore a hijab. On the day of the event, her husband saw us standing next to each other. He said that we could be brother and sister, we looked so much alike.
Add to that the garden variety antisemites who call me "Jew" as a separation from their racial makeup. I can't tell you how many times I've either had someone insinuate or tell me outright that I'm not "white."
So what is my race? What is my ethnicity? When I fill out forms that ask about race, I usually check off "other" or "care not to say." Same with ethnicity, though there's no question I'm a Jew to the core. But in the grander scheme of things, I honestly can't say what is my "race."
Thank you for writing this thoughtful comment. I’m Ashkenazi and yet managed to be identified as Jewish several times by my face/nose alone (for an antisemitic comment). Also I have spent several years at school related activities in my US city with an Arab Israeli parent who grew up a few miles from me in Israel and looks identical standing near me. Anyone stuck on a concept of “whiteness” for Jews and “brownness” for Arabs is an ignorant racist fool.
I like the idea of "leave the Jews alone." Why has this become such an issue? Are Jews any different from other people? Don’t they come in all forms and shapes? Why is there a persistent need to box them in? To reduce their authenticity? Their belonging? Does skin color determine authenticity? My skin color neither white nor black, now what?
I agree, would love for these losers to find some hobbies and stop trying to rationalize killing Jews
I wish everyone in America would read this piece.
Thank you Karl!!!
Silly question. All Jews are white, even the black ones.
Otherwise the Jew Hate doesn't work and those who promote it would find their ideology crumble if they weren't.
Hi Mallory, this is essay I've always wanted to write. Please could you guest contribute it on Guerre and Shalom. dclarkeserret@gmail.com
Yes! Emailing you now
As for the pick me, woke, self-hating Jews like Ilana Glazer, Jon Stewart, Seth Rogen, etc. who back the Palestinian cause, they don’t realize that denying their Jewish identity and trying to pretend that they are white will NOT shield them from antisemitism or change the past. As to how you got made fun of for your physical traits, I personally think your nose, hair texture and darker skin tone look great and that you look both beautiful (I say that respectfully and not to diminish your amazing intellect) and perfectly normal. You aren’t a freak or anything of that nature for your Jewish physical traits. In fact, when I saw a Substack note by you for the first time and I saw your picture, the first thing I thought was how gorgeous you were especially your hair which I thought looked absolutely perfect. When I read your note I immediately understood how intelligent, thoughtful, passionate, and unapologetically Zionist you are. As a Christian ally, I appreciate how you feel as a Jew. I did want to clarify that my point above was NOT by any means to say I started following you because of your looks but rather that woman or man, you don’t have to have European type physical traits to be attractive nor to get respect from your peers or neighbors either. I apologize if reading though this it did come off the former way. That was not my intent at all. But it just goes to show you how difficult it can be for dark-skinned Ashkenazi Jews to be accepted by white society.
Very well said (as usual), Noah! They follow in the path of many other Jews who wrongfully believed they would be spared if they "proved" themselves as "the good ones."
And thank you so much, I really appreciate the kind words!!!
I'm 88. I have 75% Greek-name ancestry. I didn't know I was 'white' until I joined the US Navy in 1954. 'Caucasian'.
There are photos of Chicago area restrictive covenant signs saying “No Greeks, no Armenians, no Jews”. Clearly there were large periods none of them were considered “white”.
I wonder if that was due to the massacres and expulsion/escapes of Armenians and Greeks and Assyrians (others?) from Turkey after WWI, resulting immigration to the USA and other nations.
Those were reasons refugees came. The restrictive covenants simply reflect who white people at the time considered “white”. A far-leftist pseudo-intellectual racist that labels all “whites” as “privileged”, “oppressors” and “racist” is a cult. Even within their own dogmatic manichean division of random Americans into “good” (non-white) and “bad” (white) actual history of racism is far more complex.
I agree with much of what you say. And the piece is well written and informative. But I don’t think most Americans harbor deep seated hatred of Jews. They may have some dumb ideas about Jews, because people who don’t know much about another culture tend to have dumb ideas. When I was a little boy, blonde, green eyed and fair complected, no stranger thought I was Jewish by appearance including other Jews who would ask me if my mother was Jewish (It cuts both ways). Part Sephardic, mostly Ashkenazi. But my DNA says Southwest Asia.
The problem for Jews right now is not the morons on the right. It’s the morons with PhDs in universities and their acolytes in the media. We have laws in America to deal with the criminal activities of these people and I think we’re about to see them enforced. There are many complex aspects to the race issue, but the immediate need is to stop the attacks on Jews. We also need better Jewish organizations, because in regards to the racism issue, we are not seeing an effective effort.
The correct answer is: who cares.
Jews are only white by the definition of others, whether whiteness is considered a positive or a negative. There's a cottage industry of books of when particular white ethnics came to be seen as white, or were accepted into polite society and into the higher echelons of power. One or more of these studies has looked at when Jews were considered white, or at least white enough to enter political office.
The problem with these books is the focus on whiteness as the arbiter of power, something American society should be trying to move past. In any case there have always been loci of power outside the white establishment, those who rose in financial and political power within their own communities outside of the white establishment.
If Ilana Glazer was so inclined, she could tell people she was from Greek background and everyone would believe her. Stereotypical Jewish features are common to the Levant and Mediterranean, unsurprisingly.
I note the absence of any dna data establishing an “ethno” component to being a Jew or to supposed oppression.
Despite all odds, every European Jewish descendant sued for their legacy familial Rembrandt back, such Genuis hidden in the nonexistent common dna that overcomes active oppression to collect Rembrandts.
You’re not Semites assholes, stop trying to ride the race train by appropriating other people’s heritage.
Which part made you think I wanted your opinion?
Just so I can eliminate that part next time
Suck a dick Rapey Jew.
TJ;dr
Too Jewy; didn’t read
Fuck off Jew
Rapey Jew
Rapey Jew
You’re here persistently because you’re Rapey, you’re Rapey because you’re a Jew
If you’re asking that you’re already wrong.
Nope